Don McIntosh Transcript
June 15, 1987
Page 2

Don: Now lets check the other trines, see what we have. We have Sun trine Jupiter in an Earth sign, from Capricorn to Taurus, that is a very good influence because it helps you on the physical material plane it indicates always fairly well, you'd be reasonable successful, you would be able to make money, to have a decent job, your not here for poverty and destitution. You in in fact have a scholarship fund that covers you up to a certain point, in your life. That comes with the Jupiter and Taurus and Capricorn and the two together work very well, to help yourself in the physical goal and world. So you don't have too many hassles there. You didn't want to spend your life dealing with all that. That is already taken care too the good. Ok. But a slight catch because of the square from Sun to the midheaven, in the exact square. And they way that works is that the closer the degrees of the square the more the impact. See there is a seven or eight degree or to either side. And your Sun is at one degree and the midheaven at three, so that's pretty close. Now if the midheaven were at eight or nine degrees it would be a little bit but not too much influence there. The close in it gets the tighter and the more penalty there is. What we have they say if we use the protection service or you use the trust fund on the material plane they deduct from what you wanted, they take away something that you really wanted to pay for it.

Larry: I guess I always had that kind of dilemma, I always to be an artist or purse some intellectual pursuit but I always been caught up with wanting the materialistic things and making money. (Don: that is the Capricorn influence) so I tend to have gone that way and I always wanted if that if that if that is what I really wanted to do.

Don: No, actually you didn`t want to do it all, but it's what you told yourself to do. There is no way that a Capricorn is going to go off the deep end and just be an artist. You couldn't handle it. You couldn't take the finical strain. It's better to get independently wealthy and then use the rest of the time to do your artwork or what every you want to do. That way it works.

Ok. So we have a pattern of interlocking aspects always that are taking place. Your moods would change very quickly and very rapidly from the moon in Pisces. You go through a lot of different moods in a very short time frame. Also you would have an in or out motion from the Uranus and ascending being close together in Cancer that at times you would have what I call a zoom in to people, if you like somebody emotionally you would move right into their space. Very close range right away. If you didn't like them or if there was something emotionally about them, even though they haven't done anything or said anything, you would back up immediately and never get close again. You would have a distance adjustment that's automatic.

Ok. That's a few of the examples of some of those aspects to give you an idea of how they work. That's it a combination, not just the one by itself. So they may give you something very worthwhile but then they can take it away through the squares. Or they give it to you but it's hard to get it around the corner of the squares. So you have it for a limited time instead of as long as you would like.

Ok. Let's go back to highlights in the present and see where you are with all of that.

Larry: I just recently just completed my degree at the University. Then also I have just gone from an independent contracting work to taking a full time job. Also I have been married five years now. (Don: the job as an contractor?) No. The job now am actually an employee of this company doing computer programming. (Don: oh, Ok). I'm at kinda at a high level in the company, a small company, about 30 people, and I'm two or three people from the top, and I have about four people working for me. I tend to do the architecture design work where I have other people actual do the detail work. That's pretty much what my work is like. It's also been an adjustment going from free flexible, make my own hours and time, contracting, to now very much structured pretty much eight to five kind of work.

Don: Ok. How far back did you start then?

Larry: Just March I made that change. I had been contracting about seven years now.

Don: The reason for that I'll tell ya. Coming up in advance on futures transits here. The planet Saturn is in late Sagittarius at this time. It is about 20 degrees now and is going retrograde which means it moves in reverse, to 14 degrees and its coming forward again there on. Well this will be starting in August it will come forward. From that time on, from Sept. on, especially Oct. it will be approaching your sun sign. As that occurs you can expect more discipline, tighter circumstances, more restrictions, more limitations. What your dealing with now is the six month six month preparation or buffer or training period to get you accumulated and ready for the Saturn coming later. So that you don't react to it too much.

Larry: I had went through this once before, I guess in 82 that I had switched from contracting for a period of little over on year to also to also a full time job. A very similar kind of thing. And after about a year and a half I finally feed up with it and went back to the contracting kind of work. Ok, let's check that. This is to see where Saturn was out of curiosity at that time.

Larry: in 82, 83

Don: Beginning of 82?

Larry: I guess starting June of 82, no It was the beginning of 82 through June or July of 83.

Don: Ok, , this will make a believer of you. Saturn at that time in its transit was in Libra, at about 15 degrees right in the middle of the sign. It was coming into the aspects to your birth Saturn as it crossed that during 83. It would take the whole year, at least maybe a year there because of the slowness of the transit of the movement and transit. Three of the worst times in the 28 year cycle that Saturn takes to go all the way around are when it crosses the Saturn position, when it crosses the sun and when it crosses the ascending. So you were in, 82, 83 one of the most difficult, structured, limiting times that you'd have in 28 years past. It would have gone at least a year and a half.

OK, like of course he would find alignment in the chart, it didn’t make me anymore a believer.

Larry: So now I see myself going through that kind of period. I see it lasting until, Julie, my wife, gets out of school and we make the change to going to DC or what ever change happens then. So that pretty much is what is happening work wise. Relationship wise, Julie have been married five years. The first two and half years..

Don: She is Sagittarius? This is here (reference to her chart).

Yes she’s Sagittarius, her birthday is December 5th, he should have known that as Julie had two sessions with him before me. Interesting enough Julie’s daughter, now my adopted daughter, birthday is the day before mine, December 21st. 

Larry: Yes, the first two and half years went very well. She was just real infatuated with me. I think that is one reason why we got along real well. Now she is really going spiritually, and emotionally. I have encouraged her and helped her go back to school and all. It has now, she.. we're having some difficulties with our relationship during this time.

This was the first time I said anything to anyone about difficulties with my marriage and here it was to a guy I didn’t even know.

Don: Ok, from how far back?

Larry: Well, I guess it has almost.. if we really start looking back at it, its been about two years when it really started. (Saturn was on here sun). We really starting seeing it, it became real obvious in the last year. When we start looking back we started seeing signs of it about two years ago.

Don: OK. Now why you are on that I will explain the causes of that, partially, and then we can come back to that if you have questions on all that. When Saturn crosses your sun sign which it did to here during that time period for her past two years.. it puts you in a period of isolation, of alienation, insulation, it cuts off the past from your life it give you a year in transition and then takes you into the future for another 28 year cycle. So it a time of major introversion, transition, preoccupation, a lot of stress on the individual (Larry: for her or me?) For her. But it's coming up for you shortly here for you first of the year when Saturn goes into Capricorn So what she went through then, is coming to you in 1988 and part of 1989.* But it is a time in essence the past is shut off and you withdraw more into yourself. You do a lot of growth. Allot of spiritual growth and awareness. It's very hard on you. You become more sensitive, less tolerant, you just can't take as much, you don't have the patience for things like you would in normal times because of the stress flow. Several important things are happening here and she is not quite through that here. She is still in that period because of the retrograde. Saturn got almost out of influence to her then its retrograding back to her sun sign in August and then it coming forward again from there where it will move on. So she is still has got another six months under that influence of saturn. Then it comes to you.

*This part would very much come true.

Ok. what it does in essence, is number one it puts a hold on the present. Everything is on hold, or frozen. No forward progress no momentum, everything comes to a standstill in the present. Then it makes you go through a karmic review of the past 28 years of your life. As an individual. Not jointly or in roles, not with help with other from other peoples. Each person appears before the judge by themselves to see how they are doing at that time in their life. Regardless of the marriage roles, feelings, or whatever, it doesn't matter. Ok. Then depending on that track record you can either get out of that in about six months or it may take three years or the judge may rule you don't go forward until this is cleared up from the past. Depending on what you have done and the karma reads. She did not have that bad of a track probably from here planets and where they are, but just for a Sagittarius just going through the review process is a major nightmare. Just to have to show up and be that structured, and make all these court appearances. It's just like physical court in real life. It's very hard. To deal with any limitations or restrictions for a Sagittarius is twice as hard as other signs. Capricorn doesn't worry about them that much but Sagittarius can't have there mobility cut off in that way. They can't handle it. There like a race car that has to be on the track. You get them in city traffic and they don't know what to do. You know it's too much for them to content with. So they get very restless, and their tendency is to run to get away from things, just to evade or avoid. When they are fenced in or boxed in, and can't move and can`t run they get very restless in a hurry. May be having nothing to do with you at all, that it's possible. Now I don't recall what she asked about or discussed because I erase and clear it after each person. But from that timing pattern it very well be that it's just what she going through that it really had nothing to do with you in any way. Or any minor things would have aggravated it, made it easier. Now she's coming out of that but your going into it. So we are looking at a karmic reversal of roles there lasting for a least a year and a half coming ahead starting in January to you. So it appear that if there is stress you need to define, identify it, see exactly where the problems lie and work at resolving those or rebalancing those in some way before the Saturn gets to you or it could close all that out and make it very difficult.

What it is doing is taking you back through your past 28 years at that time and she is just then getting out and going on toward the future. . So it is a time problem, just as it was back there where she was taken back to her past and you were still waiting in the present. Trying to interact, to deal with her in the present. She was demanded, spiritually, that she go back to review here past.

I found this last statement to be very insightful.

Larry: Yes, she went through a real involved process of doing that.

Don: Ok. When the Saturn is in you sun sign it is not a easy time to relate to people because it takes all your energy. You're running at half the energy you usually do. You're pre-occupied with everything, there is a lot of inter stress, your withdrawn and introverted more than normal. It's like you wonder if anybody is home half the time. If anybody is there, but there not, really there not. Their somewhere in another time frame reviewing all that. Now, then during that time their going through defensive checks so they get real defensive by nature and a Sagittarius is usually an open person. Their not that defensive, they just go, they don't worry about it. For a Sagittarius to learn to be defensive is a major ordeal. They are not apprehensive by nature. They don't think that way, they don't respond that way. For a Capricorn to become defensive is no big deal. They are already there. They start there and deal with that. But that was major adjustment that she would have gone through at that time period. Also during Saturn cycle your building the foundation for next 21 years of your life. So it's like in physical terms to you, your doing normal workload, your going to school, got to appear in court every other day, to answer this or that or whatever from the past 28 years. Whether it's real or not you still have to go through it or appear. And you are trying to build a new house to live in. All at the same time. And you age about 20 years in two years time. So feel like you're much older than you actually are until the Saturn clears and moves on.

And the million dollar question……

Larry: Are Sagittarius and Capricorn generally compatible?

Don: Honestly, no. Because of the difference in their nature. Now with you Sun sign in Capricorn on the cusp it would be on that consideration there would be 50% compatible and 50% you need alone time, or business time, or work time. So you could have depending on how that was handled you could have 50% good quality compatible time and then you would just go to work or do things that you need to do. But if you handle it in the wrong manner and hurt her feelings, reject her, don't include her in that, instead of "hey I just need to go to work". If you hurt her feelings about the whole thing then you may cut that down from the original 50%. The major, though, of Capricorn is hard on the Sagittarius because they are so serious. Sagittarius are light, carefree and easy, they don't worry about anything. Capricorn tend to worry about allot, are very work oriented, very goal oriented. Sagittarius could care less about all that. They are just not into it. They are just there for the experience or de-jecture. So, they are not harmful, but the signs are very different and have different needs and different approaches or styles to everything, and it could be resolved. Now if the other planets are favorable then that would temper or modify that basic interaction, which is the case in this instance. The other planets are more favorable aspected. But if you ask me if I put any two Capricorn and Sagittarius together fat random, most are not going to get along that great. Or their style is different. The Sagittarius is very easy and fluid and flowing. Capricorn tends to go through extremes. They can make adjustments, especially if your on the cusp, they can work much better than if you have been born later in the sign. But you would have to be the one to adapt in that case. You would have to in essence soften up a little bit, handle a Sagittarius more easily, more gently, not break their idealism or optimism. Not get them to realistic or to serious, then they would do fine.

So Julie and I generally were not compatible, something I was beginning to realize that. His description of Sagittarius interaction with Capricorns seemed a fair description of Julie and my relationship at the time.

Larry: Ok. I guess I tend to, I have always have a tendency.. things have always been easy for me career wise. (Don: Right that the tine from the Sun to the Jupiter) and I have always feel naturally fell into to scientific work, computer work and that kind of stuff (Don: That's the Mars in the Aquarius.) I seen that I do have an artistic side of me. I have done a lot of painting and that kind of thing.

Don: That's the moon in Pisces, and the Uranus in the ascending in Cancer. Neptune, Saturn and Libra. So you have both dimensions in your chart.

Larry: Also I have always felt need to help people, to teach people. (Don: Right, that's the Mars in the Aquarius.) I kind of getting tired of the kind of work I`m doing now and I was wondering what kind of future there would be for me to change that and to go into perhaps, becoming a teacher or professor at an university. Is that..

Don: Change before January. If your going to change, be getting on with it. It's a very favorable time for change time now. To allow you to do what you would like to doing and what your happiest with because Jupiter and Aries close to the midheaven. That is giving you an open ticket or an open choice as to what you really want to do that you will be really happy with. Take it. It tightens up later when Saturn gets to Capricorn

Larry: I guess I feel that, that would be difficult to do now. I see that as something that would happen four or five years from now.

Don: Ok, That you may could go with if you wait that long. When the Saturn clears you are looking at two and half, or three years plus the lead in time, six months. So your looking at on the other side of that then it's very favorable. It's a possibility. But not in the intermediate part, it would be hard to do.

On the highlights, personable where do you want that to be. In the marriage or the relationship, what is your choice or preference. What do you want to occur there?

Larry: Well, I guess I have been the happiest I have ever been with Julie and I would not want the relationship to go bad or terminate. So I would like to be able to recognize what I could do to help the relationship.

Don: Ok. Right up front you got to deal with it in the present, not the past context and you got to program it into the future or it will not be there. See because coming up to you in January, the past gets cut off and if you haven't transferred whatever you want from the past, put it into the future side of the program bank, they just clear it. When Saturn crosses your sun it clears that past 28 years. So I would say it would be beneficial to you now, while the timing is favorable, to look at, take inventory, what do I want in my future. "this, this and this, I want this person, this relationship", fine, we'll program it in there early and get them an advanced reservation.

Larry: Now, she claims that she needs and does not receive from me enough emotional support.

I said “she claims” as if I didn’t believe her but I knew it to be true at the time but, like Spock in Star Trek, I strived to be logical and rational and generally showed little emotion particularly toward others. I can understand how that would make me seem emotionally unattached.

Don: Ok, this is probably true. If you ask me straight out. From the chart she would not get it from the Capricorn But I would make an adjustment to that. I would say he's got the Pisces moon and the Cancer ascending which has ample and abundance supply. Its just hard for you to bring it out or show it. So maybe if she encourage that or made you or that you could work at showing it more. It's not that you don't have, because you have the Pisces moon, which is exactly what she needs. But she got to bring it out of you, you are not about to bring a Pisces moon out by yourself. So here we got what goes first, the chicken or the egg, kinda of deal. I would say if she complaining about it then you should work on bring that part of you out more comfortable without worrying about it. Now, then we have another two factors here. We'll do the multiple formulas. Straight Sun to Sun Capricorn does not have, it does not carry that much emotional baggage with it, they travel light. Only Virgo travels lighter emotional. So its may needs allot of emotion from someone they don't go through a Capricorn to find it. They don't take all that with them. You do have it, but you don't always bring it with you. And you don't like to show it or bring it out because you get venerable or sensitive yourself in doing so. But that can be gotten around. That can be worked with. At least you have it. So that's good assessment there. Now let's look at it in relationship to her. I would profile you as a Capricorn, quick mental, very perceptive, very alert, very aware with the Mercury and Sagittarius, a deep emotional flow but hard to tap into and hard to get it out yourself. It comes out in response. Somebody else has to have the style that initiates or lead emotionally. They play first and then you match. Then its ok. If you have to play first then you are very uncomfortable in that role. If you have to put the emotion in front, you may or may not do it. Depends, you have to be very comfortable to it. Very un-threatened. You may not even be able to then. It would be very hard for you to do that because of that Pisces moon. It gives in response to other people. It doesn't initiate or lead. That's just your style. It's hard to break that. It's for a reason to protect you that way. So you are going against the grain of your own protection system to do that. Now, I would tell you there, without regard to the individual, this is to anybody, if you are going to do that you're going to be responsible for yourself, you realize your outside of your own protection system. If you have to force it to get out then your open and vulnerable emotionally that way. You have to consider who your dealing with, how safe they are, is it worth it? How they will treat you emotionally if you do that if you every cross that line. Ok, now lets check her and see these other two variables here. We got, number one factor, here coming out of the Saturn period which is as best a strain and a hassle and it's like you never get enough emotionally to catch up because you have to do without for two years. You have a two back log there, I had go to school, had to be disciplined, I had to do all these other things, and all of sudden, "hey now I can just feel, I can just be here" be spontaneous again. They try to catch up retroactive. Well you can't do that in the present. It takes it over a period of time gradually or dispersed. What that would do to you would be from her coming out of that period now immediately would put emotional pressure on you to give more, to be more, to do more. And you say "I've been given all along" Yea, but I need abundant quality, quantity right now because of their coming out that Saturn. I wouldn't hurt you to receive abundant quality, quantity, before you go into the Saturn period to stock on it for a while.

Now, then we got another factor here. Her moon is in Virgo which is not an easy moon placement. Yours is in a better placement than hers. The Virgo moon to here has to be a nightmare or hell emotionally. It's a very hard place because it's square her Sun. and in the Virgo style or nature, emotionally, that's the driest flattest, most restricted, the most repressed, most limiting. It's like you have emotion but your afraid to give it out, or you won't let it out. So you have always to be worried about it instead of just letting it flow. .... to have that placement. Ok, that is being changed or adapted this year over the course of time to more spontaneous, more fluid. Instead of these abrupt extremes. One time there is emotionally all I can handle then nothing for years. It's trying to be more level, more consistent , for here with what she needs as she goes along. But since she just coming out of the Saturn period she haven't got that adjustment worked out yet. She needs a little mental assistant in how to work that out and how to work that out in a balance manner and not to have to worry about catching up. Now the Virgo moon, when she is free of that, which is now, in the last three to six months, already occurred. The Virgo indicates a repressed or difficult emotional range of experiences in her childhood for what ever reason. Because of the parents or whomever. Either way. If she had a very good childhood I would say she took somebody else's emotional track instead of her own. It would have been very hard on her and made her grow very young, very early, so she never really got to be playful, spontaneous and carefree as a child. She was serious and disciplined and restrictive as a child. She is turning that cycle over now to pick that back up but at the level that she is at this instance. That means that she is trying to make up emotionally, not only for the last couple years, but maybe all the way back to her childhood.